Disability Sport Info
Disability Sport Info
How to deliver inclusive physical education
In this episode, I speak to Rebecca Foster, MBE, about inclusive physical education for children and young people with disabilities. We discuss Rebecca's book, 'Physical Education for Young People with Disabilities: A Handbook of Practical Ideas Created by Practitioners for Practitioners Paperback', and how it can support teachers to provide quality physical education. In addition to the discussion about Rebecca's book, we discuss the wider landscape of inclusive physical education.
Link to the book: https://tinyurl.com/5cv79mte
Please get in touch with your thoughts on the episode
Thanks for listening to the Disability Sport Info show!
00:00:30 Dr Chris Brown
Hello and welcome to this live recording with friend of the podcast, Rebecca Foster MBE, who has been on before, and we're delighted to have you back today. So thank you, Rebecca, for joining me.
We're going to be focusing on your book. So a new book which is called, ‘Physical Education for Young People with Disabilities: A Handbook of Practical Ideas Created by Practitioners for Practitioners Paperback', edited by yourself, Rebecca Foster MBE, and Lerverne Barber.
OK, yeah. So I'm here to kind of just talk about your book, but also, I'm quite interested just to get an understanding about sector, really, the PE sector for young people with disabilities. And it would be great to get your thoughts on that. So yeah. Welcome to the show. It’s good to have you back.
00:01:12 Rebecca Foster MBE
Thank you very much indeed. And I appreciate the invite again and a lovely warm welcome.
I suppose I want to start with saying that I think there are pockets of good practise in PE in the country and some schools I think have tried to embed inclusive practise so that it isn't tokenistic or it's just ticking a box. I think more trainee teachers are appearing to be more open minded and accept that adaptive teaching is simply good teaching. But research by Activity Alliance, which again is a great body of people working towards highlighting the need for disability awareness, state that nearly one third of disabled children are still not accessing 30 minutes of PE per day or as they say physical activity. So that makes it even more important why we should get it right in PE. So as I said, there are good pockets of good practise, but it isn't consistent. So I do know that there are PE policies that try to guide schools, so there are reasonable adjustments, but as you know and as the listeners know, that time in schools is poor, there's also a lack of adequate funding. So because I've given your question quite a bit of thought. I then thought, well, let's drill back to teacher training and CPD in schools. But again, I kind of think those agendas are also incredibly rammed, so we're always competing for the same space. So I always feel that the information that we get in regarding to disability PE, in particular, it's a whistle stop tour, it's like how can you fit this into a 30 minute session, rather than us doing it really particularly well.
Yeah, I think disability national governing bodies, as I've mentioned, Activity Alliance and #EqualPlay campaigns, are able to help staff and people be more aware and they can support and provide information, but they're not, as I said, the awareness isn't particularly there, so.
As the current state of PE, in a nutshell, I would say that there are pockets of good practise. It's not consistent enough. But there is more of an awareness, I think now than ever about being better at educating disabled people in mainstream schools more effectively than ever before.
00:03:43 Dr Chris Brown
OK. All right. And just for context for listeners, maybe who aren't familiar, Activity Alliance is the national body who campaign for better sporting experience for disabled people, be it in terms of school or at young level or but also throughout your adult life and just a kind of general inclusivity approach to the sports sector. So they are the kind of main body responsible for championing inclusive sport and physical activity.
And also for listeners who aren't familiar with it, what is #EqualPlay campaign? Would you be able to expand upon that? Just for context, please.
00:04:12 Rebecca Foster MBE
Well, yeah, it's just come off the back of the Paralympics in Paris and, again, a lot of the athletes I think began to become more aware of how marginalised they've been at school and unfortunately, as research still states that nothing has much changed. So rather than having children on the sidelines, they're kind of making this new campaign of #EqualPlay. So there needs to be more awareness of young people being equal in any physical activity setting. So everybody has a similar opportunity. So I'm going to put a disclaimer there though, because again on paper that reads really good and we'd want to get behind it.
00:04:56 Rebecca Foster MBE
But drilling down how that actually practically looks is kind of like let's join the bandwagon that I'm on of saying well, on paper it looks good, but what does it really look like in practise?
00:05:09 Dr Chris Brown
OK. Well, thank you for that context. And also, you know, when we're looking at the current state of PE, so you said probably awareness is at the highest it's been in terms of the need for and importance of providing inclusive opportunities. However, there is this gap, perhaps, between awareness and understanding, and implementing it in practice consistently throughout the country and for every disabled child.
So how would you think about, in terms of the quality of PE provision when we're thinking about throughout the country, so different pockets of the country, but also when we're thinking about the types of impairments that individuals have, do we have the data and understanding to really drill down and get that granular information?
00:05:46 Rebecca Foster MBE
I think Activity Alliance would be your best bet to get as close a numbers. Also if you go to specific charity organisations that have got access readily to people on a register that have identified with that disability, but it's incredibly hard to find that across the country, so it varies incredibly. So it's not me alluding your question, it's just the data isn't there. And if it is, it is something that you have to seek out actively, but I suppose, collectively, the location for families with SEN or additional needs varies hugely.
It depends on what school the young person goes to, so special school, attached provision, PRU (Pupil Referral Unit) hospital school, mainstream. It could be any number. So that already changes their experience and relationship with PE.
00:06:41 Dr Chris Brown
And just again for international listeners, what is a special school? What is a mainstream school? SEN presumably stands for special educational needs. So yeah. Would you be able to kind of say what a special school is and how that differs from a mainstream school.
00:06:54 Rebecca Foster MBE
So mainstream is predominantly where the majority of young people will go to and have access to. They don't necessarily have any additional learning needs or requirements from the school. A special school will attract young people that might require quite a lot of extra support, so that might be because they have a physical disability, or they might have a delayed intellectual disability. It could be any number of things. So that would be a generic special school.
You might have a specific special school which now are drifting into attached provision, where that could look like the young children all have a similar condition, so autism. So those children could be in a special school specific or, more likely these days, an attached provision, which links closely to a mainstream school so the child can have some sessions in the autistic attached provision session and then go into some of the mainstream classes in with mainstream children.
00:08:07 Dr Chris Brown
OK. Thank you. And in terms of your book, is it targeted to both types of schools or is it more likely to be targeted to the mainstream provider?
00:08:14 Rebecca Foster MBE
Honestly, I would say the mainstream provider, simply because that is predominantly my background and the experience that I've gathered over the years.
00:08:24 Dr Chris Brown
OK. But if someone was working in a special school, would your book still be of use and helpful to them? Or is it really just contextually appropriate for a mainstream school setting?
00:08:35 Rebecca Foster MBE
I think there's something there for everybody. It just depends on the young person and the situation within the school that you might be dealing with, so you may have a gifted, young sports person in a special school that might need pushing and the teacher might not know how to do that. They don't might not know how to communicate effectively. So I think the book will certainly help with what staff can do before, during and after class. So yes, it's not exclusively mainstream only. But I do think there are some top tips in there that will help any beginner teacher or any established teacher to provide confidence.
00:09:12 Dr Chris Brown
OK. Thank you. And obviously it's in English. So, you know, it's primarily aimed at those who have an understanding of the English language, but would it be able to be used in different locations of the world or is it more just focused on an English setting or a British setting and therefore is relevant in that particular context? What are your thoughts there?
00:09:29 Rebecca Foster MBE
I would say that yes, it's been written from a British point of view, particularly English, because obviously that's where I've taught the majority of my years.
I think we have to nod to cultural differences in any country, so I think it could be purposeful. But for instance, I'm working with people from Japan about translating the book, but culturally, disability is in a different place. So I have to respect that.
Some of the contexts that I provide might not be suitable, whereas the Japanese will say to me, well, actually that context doesn't suit here, so it won't necessarily translate effectively into the UK. Again, I might be trying to overthink this, but yes, I still think that there are pockets of information about talking to the child which are universal, about that human rights approach that #EqualPlay.
There are some very positive fundamentals there that I think are translatable, but I think we have to nod that just because it's a book written in the UK doesn't make it the Oracle.
00:10:39 Dr Chris Brown
You know, I think that's important. Yes. Obviously, it's gonna be that kind of core or nucleus of the book, which can be transplanted in different locations, but then you have to adapt it accordingly to fit the context and the culture of that location.
Good. All right. And in terms of those who haven't read the book, or haven't seen the book, would you be able to just briefly describe kind of the layout of it? How do you go about tackling the subject of PE for young people disabilities? What is the kind of structure of the book.
00:11:06 Rebecca Foster MBE
Well, first of all, it's not an academic book, so I know that a lot of people who think, ‘ooh, you've written a book or it must be rooted in theory’, and there is a nod to theory. But it's a practitioner handbook, as you said very kindly at the beginning.
So for me as a young teacher, going back many, many years, I wanted to be able to pick up a resource where there was a collection of ideas, concepts that I could use quickly.
And, basically, it's taken me sort of pretty much my entire career to actually create that because there still wasn't there. There's lots of fantastic website resources, but there was nothing there that I could just grab off the shelf. So it's created to be very quick and useeful. It's colour coordinated around the national curriculum, activities broken down into specific disabilities also. So if, for instance, you have a hard of hearing young person in your class and you've got them for games, you flick to the relevant chapter and it gives you a breakdown of ideas that you can do, as I've mentioned before, before, during and after, but some practical ideas that you can do surrounded by the inclusion spectrum.
00:12:28 Dr Chris Brown
Yeah. So just for those who maybe aren't as well versed in this area as you are, what do you mean by the inclusion spectrum.
00:12:35 Rebecca Foster MBE
So I've borrowed intellectual knowledge from Haskins who helped devise the STEP principle and also Black and Stevenson that created the inclusion spectrum. So these are frameworks. There's a bunch of others. But there are other frameworks or these frameworks help us be more inclusive as practitioners.
So what I've used is I've used those concepts and put them into the inclusive planning process because a lot of students were finding that they. know what the inclusion spectrum is, which is open, modified, specific, disability, parallel? Yes, I think I've mentioned them all correctly, activities. But they didn't really know how to apply them or amend them, so the IPP (inclusive planning process) takes you through, when you have a little bit more time and a little bit more inclination, to say, well, how effective is my knowledge? Did that open activity work or can I change it? If so, how do I go about changing it? So I suppose the book also holds your hand a little bit more into giving you confidence to try new things and say it's OK to get things wrong.
So, sorry, I'm just going back to your actual question. What was the structure of the book? So within that there is a little bit of an introduction about, I suppose, Lerverne and my philosophy of of disability and how challenging it can be for teachers. But there's also some teacher assistant cards in the book that suggests how you can utilise using teaching assistants in your PE sessions to make it purposeful for children that might not be, or might need some focused attention.
00:14:19 Dr Chris Brown
OK. Thanks. So from my perspective, it seems like it's not a. You don't have to read it cover to cover, obviously. Fantastic if they do, but you're gonna pick up and go, you know. So if you are like you say, you know you're focusing on a particular game or you've got a particular type of impairment that you're interested in kind of catering for. There is a section in that book that you can find that information. So it is kind of a flick through where you need to, rather than read every single page, which obviously we want people to do, but they don't have to.
00:14:46 Rebecca Foster MBE
Oh, but I think in reality, and I am a realist, I know what I was like when I was teaching. I just said give me an idea quickly and more often than not you ask a colleague or you, as some people would say, wing it. But as a conscientious teacher, I'm thinking, well, no, I can do better than this. I can do better than this. So the resource really is off the shelf. Open up, find some ideas that will work. Oh no, that won't. Or that might. Oh that would. So it really is self-select about what that teacher can do, but rather than it off the shelf and be like quickly, let's plan or let's do. I'm trying to encourage them. Once confidence is up, is to say, right. Let's now try and plan this because if we can plan it, you won't need the drama of quickly trying to find a concept or an idea quickly.
00:15:34 Dr Chris Brown
OK, great. And how did you generate the ideas or the kind of content for the book? Was it based on yours and Lerverne's own personal experience? Did you go out and speak to other teachers? Did you speak to students? How did you generate the content and the exercises in the book?
00:15:48 Rebecca Foster MBE
So a good question. I mean, at the University of Worcester, we've got a whole PE and coaching department, and again, it was about pooling ideas. So we invited our colleagues who were named in the chapters to tell us and explain some of their experiences in often a mainstream setting.
So for me, a being a teacher for a number of years, I used some of the concepts, the ideas linked with my knowledge and gained knowledge of being a university lecturer now. So it was a blend of academic and also practical applied ideas and that was gathered from a number of people we then discussed. OK. How would this actually look? Where does it fit? Yeah, we utilised it from mainstream teachers’ ideas, and that's not to say that there are not more ideas out there because I know that there's people in special schools that will have a different take on activity.
And there's probably hundreds of more ideas, which I again nod my respect to, but this was the collection that we created to get people started.
00:17:00 Dr Chris Brown
And of course you can have future editions, so you're already setting yourself up for future versions of the book.
You said at the beginning that, you know, when you were starting out your teaching journey, this is the type of book you would really, really have liked to have to support you and maybe taking most of your career to get to the point where you can actually create the resource that you were looking for at the beginning. Apart from that, what kind of challenges did you experience in terms of getting to this position where the book is live. And what challenges do you envisage for teachers trying to actually implement some of your ideas that are in your book?
00:17:31 Rebecca Foster MBE
OK, so I'm going to ask the second part first, which is the biggest challenge for teachers remains to be lack of time, lack of funding and their own teacher confidence. And I think the book really does address this. Because it gives ideas to teachers when they might be tentative. Whereas this book I think will encourage people to say, ah, I do that already. Oh, I am doing it right. Ooh, it is OK to do that. So it's kind of like the challenge to instil that confidence because a lot of the students at university where I teach have done three years of three disability modules and at the end of the three years, and this probably isn't the right thing to say but it's the honest thing to say, is they still don't feel confident. They don't feel as though they know a great deal for adaptive teaching, which you can think, well, what sort of job do you think you're doing, Rebecca? But the concept is it's a sense of I don't think I know what I'm doing because no one's looking at me or telling me you're on the right lines. So I suppose what the book does, hopefully, secures people in saying what you are doing is OK, but now try this and now perhaps develop it this way. So that challenge is to overcome people's confidence.
I think the challenge surrounding funding, I give some alternative ideas, some cheapskate ideas to make things inclusive, because you don't need the expensive equipment. It's actually the conversation and the social dynamic that goes around the lesson, as opposed to what is being told about difference, different abilities, etcetera.
And lack of time? Again, the challenge of teachers saying they don't have lack of time, I mean we never have enough time, we're never gonna get enough time. So again, what I think is you take at your own speed. So as a newly qualified teacher, sorry to use the old terms, but you're too busy thinking about safety. Are the children doing what I'm asking them to do or they're following my instructions? They've got so much to think about.
So this book is again saying, right? Well, perhaps now that you feel a bit comfortable after your first year of teaching, maybe you look to see, right, how am I teaching to the middle or can I enhance something for a different group of children. So it's about developing yourself, not saying, right, I've read the book. Therefore I'm an inclusive practitioner. It's about the process that I hopefully take them on through the book.
00:20:09 Dr Chris Brown
OK. Thank you. I think that's really interesting insights. Yeah, some of those challenges are always going to be tricky to overcome. Lack of time. You know, if you can create time, you can be very, very wealthy. So yes, that's not gonna happen, is it?
I like the idea that you've got those kind of practical solutions which also don't cost the Earth, which I think is important and maybe some people think, oh, we can't do inclusive PE because we don’t have the equipment or we don't have XY and Z, but actually you can say you can do it, you just need to adapt what you've currently got. Would that be fair?
00:20:37 Rebecca Foster MBE
Yeah, yes, but also it's creativity and not everybody has got time to teach, to be creative.
So what hopefully the book does is give you some ideas for that, and there's also another sheet that I've devised about this is the expensive version. But hey, what about this version? And I'm not getting paid or promoted to sell it or but if people are interested in that, it's potential funding streams for PE, whether it be outside physical activity on the playground or in-class equipment. Because it can be done, it might be a bit of a struggle and it might not be perfect to begin with, but again, it's the notion that you're moving towards being more inclusive.
00:21:24 Dr Chris Brown
And the book is, you know, a static kind of resource. You know, you look at it there and then there's no like visual feedback or anything like that in terms of being able to understand how it's actually implemented. So what are your thoughts about potentially taking the book further, the resource of the book further by incorporating kind of the video element to it so people can actually see how some of those ideas and resources are actually done. Hopefully, you’ve done a fantastic job in explaining clearly how to deliver it, but if teachers are a little bit unsure, not confident, is there scope for it in the future for more resources to support them?
00:21:58 Rebecca Foster MBE
It would be delightful if I was given the opportunity to do that. I think people could say that in a university I'm in an ivory tower, aren't I? Because I can talk to students about this ideal teaching platform and you could try this, you could try that. But we have tried some of the concepts with real life children etcetera and through my experience.
But I think what would be valuable if there were schools or pockets of places that say, right? Come on, Rebecca. We're happy to video you. Let's put this to practice. Let's see what it really looks like. So that's a challenge and invitation, I suppose, for people that might want to say, right? Well, no, we're willing to try some of these ideas.
I also consider myself, I’m in a teaching profession but I'm not in the teaching profession, so I think a lot of the success of inclusive delivery depends on the person who's delivering it. So if I come in as a new person, let's just say I've got some children that don’t bond with me, what have you? It's going to be a false scenario. It could be a very real scenario because I know children fall out with teachers throughout lessons, depending on everybody's mood. But I suppose to try and make it as realistic as possible.
So in answer to your question, yes, I do think that there could be an element of CPD or an element of videoing, but I think it needs to be in the school setting. It does need to be with the teachers who are implementing it because there's no point me parachuting in and saying, ‘oh, try this idea’, and then going again. It's about building that relationship with the children.
00:23:49 Dr Chris Brown
So in terms of the feedback from those who have used it so far, what kind of feedback have you been getting from those who have got your book and have tried to implement some of your solutions?
00:23:58 Rebecca Foster MBE
Well, there was one school that read bits of book. Probably not all of it. Bits of the book. And they had an attached provision of hearing impaired unit. And they felt they could do more. So they had considered some of the activities of the book. But they said, Ohh, can you just help u to do a bit of troubleshooting here? So I used some of the concepts of what they could do before, during, after, which was predominantly to talk and communicate with the young people.
The school took this on, and then we the feedback from the young people, the hard of hearing young people, the deaf awareness of the staff and the wider community has been very, very positive. So that was really lovely to be approached, to say, right, well, can you know, can you help us further?
I have a very glowing review from AFP. The Association for PE, who again are promoting good practice and as a result delivered at their development day, and as a result have been invited into a partnership of school to say right, we'd like to hear a little bit more about what you can offer.
But the feedback specifically from the book is that the staff predominantly like the bullet points. The fact that it's quite quick information very quickly. They also like the teaching assistant cards that are embedded in the book. So teaching assistants are often an untapped resource. It takes the teacher a number of times to explain some of the activities where the TA (teaching assistant) might not be specifically trained, so those cards can be given and they could take a group of young people to help them. Staff have said that they like that they could do things before, during and after, so it's not just that in the lesson, it's what they could do beforehand and after to double check, easy to pick up, easy language, the fact that it wasn't academic people welcomed that.
Sections were colour coordinated. So I’ve got a shortlist here of the things people have said that they've liked. And confidence in reinforcing and they liked the message that it is OK to ask the young person if the relationship is good. It's kind of like, well, what do you think? How do you feel? Does that work for you? Rather than the teacher going in as the, ‘I know exactly what I'm doing’ and that command style. They're actually thinking, right, well, it needs to be a two way conversation. So that, in a nutshell, is what some of the practitioners have said.
00:26:33 Dr Chris Brown
Interesting. OK, thank you. And if we're talking again in about 5 years’ time, say about your second edition of the book, how will it be different, do you think?
00:26:42 Rebecca Foster MBE
Well firstly, I do hope we are talking and I think that there needs to be something a little bit more on neurodivergence that's coming through. So I think areas that I'm become more aware of such as pathological demand avoidance, oppositional defiant disorder, coupled with anxiety, I think that might be an area that I would be interested in about the language that we use to encourage young people to take part with us.
I've also thought about hidden disabilities because I think again, my awareness is growing about diabetes, Crohn's, epilepsy, etcetera.
And making people perhaps a little bit more aware of the social emotional side attached to disabilities, especially the hidden disabilities. So the psychological side which links with the social relational model of disability, which I don't want to necessarily go into unless you want me to.
00:27:41 Dr Chris Brown
OK. Yeah. So there's definitely some untapped areas that could be explored going forward.
00:27:47 Rebecca Foster MBE
Yeah, I think so. And I'm also very willing to be schooled to take new ideas, develop ideas, explore, et cetera, because we are learning all the time. And although I have experience over the years, it's growing and I think it's important to listen to the diverse nature of our community, to make sure that people are less marginalised. So I think it’s got to continue to evolve.
00:28:15 Dr Chris Brown
If you wanted to kind of summarise why people should take the book or why they should use it as part of their teacher training, what kind of key message can you give to the listeners?
00:28:25 Rebecca Foster MBE
OK, alright, OK. So I would say, why is it needed? It saves you time because I've done quite a lot of what works for you. I'm hoping it will provide confidence. So you know you’re on the right lines. It gives you some quick ideas and new ideas. I would say that's the why.
I think the takeaways. I would say lots of quick easy information. Applied ideas for busy staff.
It's not academic, so therefore you're not going to be sort of lent on with huge amounts of text.
I cut to the chase, unlike some of my descriptions today.
But the TAs are an untapped resource, so there's some useful cards that again will save time for you to be able to implement instantly.
00:29:14 Dr Chris Brown
Great. Well to me it's an absolute open and shut case. We should get the book and we should use it to hopefully advance, which is a very important area, which is of inclusive PE for all and the right to quality PE for everybody.
So I wish you the best of luck Becs, in terms of being able to get that book out there. And it sounds like it's got really good feedback on how the book is being received and hopefully that continues.
And it would be interesting to kind of check in at a later date to see how the book is being received, but also potentially, like you said earlier, future iterations of it or where they potentially be a little bit more development.
So I thank you for your time today. Really appreciate having a chat with you. Always nice to have a chat with you and it's a really important topic. So if you've not had a chance to look at the book.
Just to remind listeners of the title of the book, it's ‘Physical Education for Young People with Disabilities: A Handbook of Practical Ideas Created by Practitioners for Practitioners’, edited by Rebecca Foster MBE, and Lerverne Barber.
Cool. Thank you, Becs. Really appreciate having a chat with you and look forward to catching up with you soon.
00:30:18 Rebecca Foster MBE
Thank you very much, Chris. I really appreciate it.